Former Minnesota National Guard Command Sergeant Major Doug Julin said Thursday on CNN’s “Laura Coates Live” that Gov. Tim Walz (D-MN) did not retire from the National Guard correctly.
Partial transcript as follows:
COATES: Sergeant Major, thank you for joining me this evening. Everyone is really focused on the nuance of this specific issue. So, I want to pick your brain on this, because you gave an interview to “The Washington Post” where you said, and I’m going to quote, “Nobody wants to go to war. I didn’t want to go, but I went. The big frustration was that he let his troops down.” Now, he was entitled to retire after 20 years of service. I think he served 24. Why do you suggest that he let his troops down by exercising that choice to retire?
JULIN: Well, there’s a number of things out there and, hopefully, I’ve got time to present this whole sequence of events to you tonight, Laura. The reason being is that there’s so much stuff going on out there that people don’t really understand the chronological events as they occur.
And I’m going to kind of start back in the fall of 2004, is what we received, my commander and myself, of the 1st Brigade 34th Infantry Division Brigade Combat Team, what’s called a notification of sourcing, which is a NOS. We were informed that we would be alerted to go to Iraq within the next upcoming year or time period out there, start preparing your team, getting your team together, and let’s get the process in play.
From that going forward, we met with one of the 125 Field Artillery, introduced ourselves, talked to them, and gave them a heads up, this is what’s happening, we don’t know the full particulars, but we will get to it.
In approximately February of 2005, my boss, my commander, colonel, and the command team, we scheduled a meeting at Camp Ripley, Minnesota for a meeting, getting everybody together so all the battalion sergeant majors, the battalion commanders, and the staff would get to see each other and kind of start the team building event in that concept there.
At that meeting was Governor Tim Walz or Sergeant Major Tim Walz at the time. When we had the meeting and it was over with, he asked to speak with me, and we sat down and spoke one-on-one, and that’s where he informed me, he says, just to let you know, I have put a bid in for Congress. I have not been selected yet, I have not been nominated yet, but I just want to let you know. He gave me a warning order, which we call a warning order out there.
COATES: Uh-hmm.
JULIN: The following month, and it was March of 2005 or it could have been April, give or take a month right in there, we had another meeting at Camp Ripley. At that time, Tim Walz was there. We had our meeting. Everybody was talking about what, when, and where, what we were going to be doing, what our mission was coming up to be, how we were going to handle it, and how we needed to build the team. Again, this whole time period, we’re doing what’s called building a team to go forward to Iraq.
After the meeting, Tim Walz came in and sat down with me because I had talked to him before and said — I need to know what his answer is at that time. He came in, we sat and talked, he told me, he says, I have not been nominated, I am going forward with the battalion. I said, good, let’s go. We got the team built, and we’re starting to build the team out there.
A month lapsed or a little bit more lapsed, and in June, we went to Camp Ripley for our meeting again. I walked into the team, the meeting hall, and Tom Behrens was there —
COATES: Uh-hmm.
JULIN: and I asked Tim what he was doing there. And that’s when he informed me that he had quit. The issue that came out of this was, first of all, how did Tim Walz quit without discussing with me, because I was his next level of leadership —
COATES: Excuse me, you’re using the word quit.
JULIN: or responsibility or supervisor.
COATES: I don’t want to cut you off, sir, but — excuse me, Sergeant Major, I just want to be precise in the language. You’re using the word quit. You mean that he had opted to retire still, is that right? He had not somehow gone AWOL or been dishonestly discharged in some way. He opted to retire. Okay.
JULIN: Yeah, the terminology that came to me was he quit and went from there. Yes, he opted to retire. I’m going to back up two seconds. He opted to retire, which I found out at a later date in June —
COATES: Uh-hmm.
JULIN: Is where it went to.
When I found this out at that meeting, my focus is to build the team, let’s go forward, we’ve got to do this.
COATES: Sure.
JULIN: The other issue was that the individual that approved this was two levels higher than myself in the enlisted corps and should have had Tim Walz come back to me and talk to me about this and discuss this as to why he was going forward now or not going forward now after he had already told me he was going forward.
COATES: I understand, Sergeant Major. Now, thinking about that timeline, I think it’s important, the way you’ve laid it out, because it sounds as though, yes, he was entitled to retire. There was a protocol where he was supposed to go to you, you say, for that approval, but there was somebody he went to instead of you, which has caused some level of consternation.
But in the way that he has handled how he decided to retire, I do wonder what you make of the way his retirement is being characterized now by political figures and others who are saying that, somehow, he has stolen valor, number one, or that his retirement was an abandonment of his duties. How do you feel about the experience that you are describing to us right now being described as political talking points?
JULIN: The real thing is that the level that he held at that time, which could have been either a First Sergeant, but he was conditionally promoted to Command Sergeant Major, he knew the rules or the policies or the procedures and the manner of how to address issues going forward.
If this would have been an early entry, low-level ranking individual, different story. We would have understood that, okay, he didn’t understand the processes and the procedures. Tim Walz knew the processes and the procedures. He went around me and above and beyond me and went — and basically went to get somebody to back him, to get him out of there without — it was just a backdoor process that he handled against me or against the battalion out there. The real focus was —
COATES: Is your concern that it’s — oh, go ahead. I do want to ask this question quickly, Sergeant Major, and I appreciate your time, but is your –
JULIN: Go ahead.
COATES: Is your concern about the manner in which he did not speak to you or his decision to retire, which he, as we’ve talked about, he would have been entitled to do, which causes the most concern? Because that is the focus that so many people are wondering about, whether he has done something wrong in service or done something personally to offend you.
JULIN: No, he did something wrong in service, as I stated before. He knew the policies and procedures and how we go to leadership and address issues or discuss issues and concerns out there. Again, backing up, he had told me, no, I’m going forward, we’re going to go with the battalion, and go from there. So, I’m under the believing, he told me he was going forward. I’m underneath that believing that he’s going forward. He went around me, which he should have addressed it with me so he could help me with some things out there.
COATES: Sergeant Major, this was really — excuse me, I don’t want to cut you off, sir. Finish your point, please, Sergeant Major.
JULIN: He went around me. And the fact is that there’s a possibility he probably would have realized. I would have probably said, no, it’s too late, you’re going forward, because we’d already received our notification of sourcing. And there’s one other little point out there that people say, well, he hadn’t been notified yet. Yes, he had been notified.
Now, there’s another step out there. It is what’s called stop loss. Ninety days prior to the actual deployment, we received our orders. And at that time is what’s called stop loss, where if you’re in a position, you’re going forward irregardless, unless there’s some really major or process —
COATES: Hmm, okay.
JULIN: — that gets you out from not going on the deployment itself. So, there’s that window of opportunity there. People say, well, he never knew he was going forward. Yeah, he knew he was going forward. Had he gotten his orders yet? No. At that time, he had not. COATES: Hmm.
JULIN: As far as being a command sergeant major, as soon as he retired — I’m going to go with the term retired, which he did, and he was eligible after 20 years to get a full retirement, he was taken out of the academy at that time. Here’s another thing about —
COATES: Well, Sergeant Major, I do want to hear — I do want to hear what you have to say, Sergeant Major. I know — I want to be sensitive of your time and your audio is beginning to break up just a little bit, but I do want to thank you because I think you’ve clarified a lot for people and given more information. The question now is how the voters will evaluate it. Sergeant Major Doug Julin, thank you so much.
JULIN: Yes, thank you.
COATES: I should note our show has reached out to the Harris-Walz campaign for comment and have not heard back. I’m going to continue my conversation with the panel who are here right now. We heard a lot from the sergeant major. This is a topic that people have been talking a great deal about.
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