Wednesday, during FNC’s “Hannity,” host Sean Hannity confronted left-wing journalist Taylor Lorenz over her depictions of Luigi Mangione, the alleged killer of UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson.
The Fox News host told the former New York Times reporter she was “putting a smiley face on assassination.”
Transcript as follows:
HANNITY: All right. Former “Washington Post” columnist, technology reporter for “The New York Times”, “Daily Beast”, and “Business Insider”, Taylor Lorenz, made a lot of headlines Sunday with her comments about the alleged UnitedHealthcare CEO assassin, Luigi Mangione.
Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LORENZ: So you’re going to see women especially that feel like, oh, my God, right? Like here’s this man who — who’s a revolutionary, who’s famous, who’s handsome, who’s young, who’s smart, he’s a person that seems this like this morally good man which is hard to find.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HANNITY: Okay. She claims she was just expressing the views of his supporters, but remember. just hours after the murder, she responded to a story about Blue Cross, Blue Shield no longer covering anesthesia for some full-length surgeries writing, quote, and people wonder why we want these executives dead, want them dead. She later tried to clarify her comments but appeared to double down, publishing a piece on Substack that said in part, quote, if you have watched a loved one die because an insurance conglomerate has denied their life-saving treatment as a cost-cutting measure, yes, it’s natural to wish that the people who run such conglomerates would suffer the same fate.
Sunday’s comments came roughly a week after she expressed disappointment in a post on next when she learned a tweet claiming Joe Biden had not died was not true. Remember, back in November she posted saying, quote, Joe Biden is a war criminal who should never know peace.
Technology, online, culture journalist Taylor Lorenz is here to explain.
All right. Try and explain this to me. You feel joy — those are your words that you felt joy over the murder of this father. No, those are the words you use. You can shake your head all you want.
LORENZ: No —
HANNITY : And we have the tape. We have the tape and number one — then you go on to say, and people wonder why we want these executives dead. Then you posted an image of the Blue Cross CEO Kim Keck.
Now, let me ask you, what part of this UnitedHealthcare CEO being a father and a husband don’t you understand? And what part of you having a choice of what health care provider you choose to deal with or not do you not understand? Because you don’t have to go with United. You don’t have to go with Blue Cross.
LORENZ: So let me just be extra clear. Never did I say that I felt joy in his death. I said very explicitly if you play the full segment and actually people can watch that segment on my YouTube in full, not the edited version that Piers showed, I said that I felt joy along with millions of other Americans that the brutality of our health care system was finally being acknowledged. I believe that our current health care system is murderous, right?
I mean, we have uninsured Americans with a 40 percent higher risk of death compared to insured, counterparts.
HANNITY: All right. Taylor, we can talk about healthcare all night —
LORENZ: Nearly 70,000 Americans die each year —
HANNITY: But that’s not the topic.
LORENZ: — lack of health insurance.
HANNITY: Taylor, that’s not the topic. If you can talk about healthcare, I don’t like the health care system either, and a lot of people have experienced frustration like you’re saying. That to me is separate and apart from the debate of praising, calling handsome, smart, intelligence, being joyful over the death and assassination of innocent people.
And that’s what your comments did. Your comments —
LORENZ: So —
HANNITY: — basically put your seal of approval on murder and assassination. And I’m trying to understand, whether you like this guy, like the way he does business or not, you’re advocating and putting a smiley face on assassination. And I ‘m trying to understand what is in your soul that that doesn’t understand he’s a father and a — and a husband here. What are you missing?
There seems to be a missing chip with you.
LORENZ: Sean, if you’d like to hear, you know, I would need to talk in order to explain.
HANNITY: I don’t want the rationalization. I want you to think about what you said. Explain what you said.
LORENZ: I know exactly what I said. I — again, I’m attempting to right now so I’d ask you to please give the space and try to listen here.
As I said once again, never did I say I felt joy that this man died. I said again that I felt joy that millions of Americans are — or millions of really wealthy Americans and privileged Americans are forcing — or forced to wake up to the reality that nearly 70,000 Americans die each year due to lack of health insurance.
I do feel joyful —
HANNITY: OK, you’re back to the healthcare debate. Why would any human being with a conscience and soul be joyful over an assassination of any person, why would anybody be joyful over that?
LORENZ: No one — well, actually, that’s a good question. Why don’t I explain?
HANNITY: It’s a great question.
LORENZ: So the other clip — so the other clip that you played is not me saying my own beliefs. I have quite different beliefs from that . What I’m describing and if you watch the full segment, not just the clip, you’ll see that I’m describing the mentality of these fan girls that show up outside Luigi’s court and show up outside his jail cell.
Those girls are not me, okay? We have very separate belief systems, but I was describing how they believe. And now, let me explain to you why people in America feel this way. People in America feel this way and they feel outraged because again every penny of the $22 billion in profit made by UnitedHealth was made at the expense and suffering of others. And that is violence.
Our health care system is also violent and that is a violence that people in the mainstream media such as yourself continue to refuse to acknowledge.
So, if you’re going to talk about death and violence, it’s crucial to talk about the death and violence of our healthcare system.
HANNITY: Taylor, if you want to criticize the healthcare system —
LORENZ: Pardon?
HANNITY: There’s a better way than saying that — that Luigi Mangione is a revolutionary who’s famous, handsome, young, smart —
LORENZ: That is what those people believe.
(CROSSTALK)
HANNITY: That seems —
(CROSSTALK)
HANNITY: Like hold on and seems like he’s a morally good man.
If you want to have legitimate criticism, you could write your an intelligent piece saying here is what’s wrong with America’s health care system, like for example, I want health care savings accounts, I would like to see more of the use of telemedicine, I believe in health care cooperatives, I know one that works. Josh Umber, Atlas MD, Average Person, 24-hour concierge care, 50 bucks a month, there are better ways to do it. That’s a legitimate debate.
But that’s not how you’re saying it. You’re saying it in ways that are sympathetic to the people that are taking action —
LORENZ: And describing the belief system —
HANNITY: — handsome, good looking, this is why people are happy and joyful.
LORENZ: I’m describing the belief system of his supporters, Sean.
HANNITY: Why don’t you condemn them? Do you condemn — do you — will you say that anyone that praises this guy is — is lacking a soul, a conscience and a heart? Do you agree with that statement?
LORENZ: Well, what I will say, Sean, once again is that I believe in free speech.
HANNITY: I just asked you a very direct question. Will you say that anyone that’s praising this guy doesn’t have a soul, a conscience and a heart?
LORENZ: I don’t believe in things like, you know, religious things like souls and all those things.
(CROSSTALK)
HANNITY: I’m not asking about religious. If you can’t have sympathy for a dead father and husband, do you lack a conscience, a soul and a heart? That’s a simple question. You’re a smart woman.
LORENZ: Well, let me let me respond to you, Sean. I believe that every one of the 70,000 Americans that die each year because of lack of health insurance, also has a heart.
HANNITY: You’re back to healthcare and not answering my question. I’ve done this 29 years, Taylor. Answer the question, if you think it’s okay and you celebrate assassination, are you lacking a conscience, a soul and a heart?
LORENZ: I think once again, you’re conflating me explaining the ideology of the women that —
(CROSSTALK)
HANNITY: I’m not conflating it. You are trying to rationalize them. If you support assassination. Answer, Taylor, answer the question. If you support assassination of innocent people, are you lacking a conscience, a soul and a heart? Simple question. Go.
LORENZ: I believe that the assassination of innocent — of innocent people, if you want to talk about the assassination of innocent people, I believe that the tens of thousands of Americans that die each year because of the lack of health insurance of — that is to me a violence in itself. That is assassination. These are — these health insurance.
HANNITY: I want to have that discussion with you, but I — but we can’t have that discussion until you say —
LORENZ: You can’t have a discussion when you’re not willing to hear on what my beliefs are.
(CROSSTALK)
HANNITY: Do you condemn people that have been committing acts of — do you condemn the people that tried to assassinate Donald Trump or would it be a good thing in your mind if or would you understand why people want to kill him or understand why people want to kill Elon Musk? Do you understand them too? Are they handsome people too? Smart people?
LORENZ: Well, so let me — let me actually talk to you a little bit about that. So, I cover violent extremism. I’ve witnessed violent extremism from many different factions, right, of the political system. If for instance somebody shows up and shoots an abortion provider dead, I want to understand their ideology. I’m a — I’m a reporter, I want to understand their belief system and I want to understand what led them there.
Now, let me tell you something because it’s interesting you bring up the assassination of Doanld Trump —
HANNITY: OK, is that — if you — if you — if you resort to violence and you kill innocent people, are you lacking a conscience, soul and a heart? What’s so hard? Why don’t you to answer that question?
LORENZ: Well, once again, when you talk about souls, it’s not — that’s not really my specialty. But what I do specialize in is extremism.
HANNITY: Obviously.
LORENZ: We are at a time right now — we are at a time right now —
HANNITY: By the way, I would say that’s obvious.
LORENZ: Okay, thank you. Well, we are at a time right now when we’re witnessing actually one of the biggest memes on the Internet right now is about assassinating Trump and Elon. These are posts with millions of likes that that are advocating for the assassination of —
(CROSSTALK)
HANNITY: OK. Simple question, do you condemn that? Can you take a moral stand and condemn that?
LORENZ: What I condemn is the violence of our system and I would love for you to acknowledge that.
(CROSSTALK)
HANNITY: I’m not asking you to condemn that system. Do you condemn — Taylor, do you condemn people that call for assassination?
LORENZ: Gosh, you’re going to ask if I condemn Hamas, next. This is crazy. I would love for you to acknowledge what I’m actually saying, Sean, and you — we seem to be talking past each other.
I want to talk about the fact that half of all adults for —
HANNITY: No, I hear you loud and clear.
(CROSSTALK)
LORENZ: — because of cost. We need to talk about this 70 percent of Americans by the way believe that the insurance company practices are responsible in part for Thompson’s death. These are signs of —
(CROSSTALK)
HANNITY: You want to put a rationalization. I am saying anybody that wants to assassinate any innocent person is wrong.
(CROSSTALK)
HANNITY: I don’t care if it’s a Democrat or Republican or a father or a husband, and I speak — that is a simple truth that anyone with a heart would easily say on national TV and you’re having a hard time with.
(CROSSTALK)
LORENZ: If you want to prevent further deaths and you don’t want gun violence in the street, which I think we both are aligned in in wanting, right? We want peace. We do not want violence in this country no matter what side of the political aisle it’s coming from, you need to understand motives and you need to understand the ideology that people have, and that is what —
HANNITY: Why don’t you first start with the basics? I’m going to help you out. Why don’t you first condemn those that want to be involved in assassination and stop talking about them being handsome and smart and intelligent and —
LORENZ: I’m not — I didn’t say that I believe that. I am describing his supporters who do believe that and I think it’s very important just the way that I would try to understand the ideology —
HANNITY: Do you condemn his supporters? Last word, last question.
(CROSSTALK)
LORENZ: — Unite the Right rally, I would try to understand the ideology of any — of anyone that would advocate for violence in this country no matter —
HANNITY: Do you condemn his supporters?
LORENZ: Once again, I believe in free speech. I believe in free speech. They have not committed any crimes.
HANNITY: I’m asking you.
LORENZ: His supporters are outside just saying things. They’re not committing any sort of acts of violence.
HANNITY: You won’t condemn — you won’t condemn his supporters. You won’t say what they’re doing is repulsive.
LORENZ: Once again, Sean, I believe in free speech and the right to free expression. I seem to be in the minority these days.
HANNITY: The difference between assassination and speech, do you condemn those that support violence and in this case praise Luigi Mangione.
LORENZ: You asked again, the people that are showing up outside —
HANNITY: All right. We’re going around in a circle. I got to go. There’s no hope.
LORENZ: They’re exercising their free — their right to free speech. They’re talking about the fact that over 320,000 people died from lack of health insurance in the first two years of the pandemic alone.
HANNITY: Appreciate you being with us.
LORENZ: These are things that we need to acknowledge if we ever want to fix our system.
HANNITY: I got to go.
LORENZ: We have a violent, violent health care system, Sean, and it needs reform and that’s what we should be focusing on. That’s the violence we should center.
HANNITY: And people that have a platform like yours should speak out loudly and clearly and unambiguously and you won’t do it. Appreciate you being on.
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