In his final interview as U.S. Ambassador to China, Nicholas Burns told the Wall Street Journal’s Jonathan Cheng that Chinese officials severed communication with the U.S. after President Biden’s order to shoot down China’s spy balloon off the coast of South Carolina, calling it “the most tense moment” of his tenure in Beijing.
JONATHAN CHENG: This is perhaps your last interview here in Beijing, so let me just jump right in and ask: Was there a moment that you thought perhaps we were peering over the edge?
AMB. NICHOLAS BURNS: I have to tell you, after the balloon crisis—that was February, the beginning of February 2023—you remember that strange balloon that floated across the national territory of the United States from Alaska to South Carolina. When the president, quite rightfully, ordered it to be shot down over the territorial waters of South Carolina, in the aftermath of that, the Chinese shut down and refused to talk to us in senior-level channels. I was one of the few channels that we had going.
I was worried about the relationship. I think it was the most tense moment, February, March, April of 2023, and that is not healthy for a relationship between the two strongest military powers in the world because you don’t want a situation where a seemingly minor incident, like a misunderstanding in the Spratly Islands between our militaries, might become a major crisis. You want to be able to handle something like that.
JONATHAN CHENG: Now, if you're sitting here in Beijing and you're seeing the rhetoric about Canada, about Greenland, does it make it more difficult for the U.S. government to go to China and say we need to make sure that we respect sovereignty in the South China Sea or around the periphery of China? Does that make it harder?
AMB. NICHOLAS BURNS: The argument we made back three years ago when Putin invaded Ukraine is that country's borders are sacred, that sovereignty is sacrosanct, and so that's a fundamental building block of the stable, successful world that we had a lot of responsibility for building—that every single American president has honored.
JONATHAN CHENG: Part of the concern with China and Putin is the question of sovereignty. I mean, it sounds like it does make it more difficult.
AMB. NICHOLAS BURNS: Our message to Putin and the Chinese will be very strong and credible when we practice that respect for sovereignty, especially of our allies. These are two NATO allies. You know, NATO's a collective defense organization. We pledge our fortunes to each other. On 9/11, it was the most extraordinary moment of my career when these countries, 18 others, came forward within several hours to say we're with you. We'll invoke this clause in the NATO Charter: an attack on one is an attack on all. Remember who led it? Canada.
JONATHAN CHENG: Now as we look ahead, The next administration, it looks like tariffs are going to be part of the mix here. Certainly, tariff threats are part of the mix. I mean, do you worry about that souring the relationship in particular? And do you grant that perhaps an approach that is tougher might actually yield some benefits?
AMB. NICHOLAS BURNS: I wouldn't want to be unfair to them by trying to project what I think they may or may not do, but I will say this: President Biden has used tariffs. In fact, President Biden elevated the tariffs back in May of 2024. He ordered an increase of 100% tariffs on Chinese electric vehicles coming into the United States, 50% tariffs on Chinese semiconductors, and 25% tariffs on Chinese lithium batteries. So if the Chinese are going to compete unfairly, if they're not going to meet us halfway, and if we were to avoid a second China shock that would lead to massive losses in manufacturing jobs in the United States, we've got to defend American workers.
JONATHAN CHENG: Certainly, the Republican Party would say so—that the Biden team hasn't made that much progress on industrial overcapacity and that we need a tougher approach. And what would you say to them?
AMB. NICHOLAS BURNS: Well, we've certainly rung the village bell on industrial overcapacity. We see China trying to export its excess production of lithium batteries, solar panels, robotics, steel, to the rest of the world, and you've seen this extraordinary reaction. Who has raised tariffs on China? South Africa, Turkey, India, Brazil, Mexico, Colombia, Canada, the European Union, and the United States. So we are not alone in reacting to this, which tells you that the Chinese have miscalculated here, and we've reacted in a very strong way. When you raise tariffs in the way that President Biden did—so dramatically, with so much strength—I think that was the right thing for us to do.
JONATHAN CHENG: You've been concerned for your two-plus years at the time about the very aggressive Chinese government efforts to denigrate America, to tell a distorted story about American society, American history, American policy, and there's a high degree of anti-Americanism online. As you walk out the door here, does that continue to concern you?
AMB. NICHOLAS BURNS: I think the efforts of the government to do all of that continue, unfortunately. You know, we call it the Battle of Ideas. The communist government here has an entirely different set of beliefs about the rights of individuals, about human freedom, about religious freedom, and we differ very strongly. We're making sure that we have every possibility of going around their censors. They censor us every day, and it's a cat-and-mouse game. We try to get our beliefs, a speech by President Biden, back into the airwaves here, back into the bloodstream of China, and I know we're right in doing this. I think the American people would expect their embassy here to be waging this battle. It's a peaceful battle, but it's a battle for minds and for a true picture of American society. So, we're just trying to defend an accurate view and project an accurate view of our society, our history, and the great ideals for which we stand.
JONATHAN CHENG: You're going to get on a plane and return to the US. Do you worry about the future of US-China relations?
AMB. NICHOLAS BURNS: I think we should always be worried about it because here you have the two strongest economic powers and military powers at cross purposes on many of the major issues concerning the future of the world and the future of our relationships. So I think, as a diplomat, I've been constantly concerned in the nearly three years I've been here. We've got to have a combination of real strength and conviction that we're going to uphold American national interests, and at the same time, we're going to have to find a way to work with them and connect to them to keep the peace. Those are not contradictory; that's two halves of a rational policy towards China.
