Wednesday on CNN televised town hall with 2024 Republican presidential hopeful Vivek Ramaswamy, moderator Abby Phillip disputed Ramaswamy’s claim at last week’s GOP presidential debate the January 6, 2021 Capitol Hill riot was an “inside job.”
Ramaswamy accused the federal government of engaging in entrapment and noted a pattern of deception from federal government officials in recent years to bolster his claim.
Partial transcript as follows:
PHILLIP: Speaking — speaking of those debates, let me ask you about something that you said at the debate last week.
You used the phrase inside job to describe what happened on January 6.
The next day, Capitol rioter Alan Hostetter highlighted your comments at his sentencing. He is going to prison for 11 years. Hostetter threatened members of Congress. He brought a hatchet, knives, pepper spray, stun batons, tactical gear to the U.S. Capitol.
Are you concerned that a convicted felon like that is now promoting your comments in court?
RAMASWAMY: So here’s my concern, Abby.
And I want to tell you guys where I’m at. If you had told me — it’s close to three years ago that January 6, 2021, happened. If you had told me three years ago, back when I was a biotech CEO, not steeped in this world — I was just consuming passive media, but was focused on my world of developing medicines.
If you had told me that January 6 was in any way an inside job, the subject of government entrapment, I would have told you that was crazy talk, fringe conspiracy theory nonsense.
I can tell you now, having gone somewhat deep in this, it’s not. I mean, the reality is this. We do have a government, first of all, we have technology, that has lied to us systematically over the last several years about the origin of COVID-19, about the Hunter Biden laptop that we were told was false by 51 CIA experts and otherwise, before we now know that it was true.
You can go straight down the list, the Trump-Russia disinformation collusion hoax, all of it. Now we come to January 6. The reality is, we know that there were federal law enforcement agents in that field. We don’t know how many.
I think it’s shameful…
PHILLIP: Mr. Ramaswamy…
RAMASWAMY: If I may finish just answering here, because this is really important, Abby.
PHILLIP: Well, let me just — I’m going to — I’m going to go ahead and interrupt you here, because you’re saying that there were…
RAMASWAMY: Because I know the establishment doesn’t approve of this message. I know this.
PHILLIP: You’re saying that there were federal agents.
RAMASWAMY: But we should be able to talk about this.
PHILLIP: You’re saying that there were federal agents in the crowd.
RAMASWAMY: This is important to talk about. This is important.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
PHILLIP: You are saying there were federal agents in the crowd on January 6.
RAMASWAMY: Yes. Yes.
PHILLIP: There is no evidence that there were federal agents in the crowd on January 6.
RAMASWAMY: So — so, why, before Congress, when pressed on what the number was, they didn’t say there were none? They just couldn’t say how many there were.
PHILLIP: So you’re saying that there’s no — that you have not seen evidence — any evidence that there were, and so you have assume that there were.
RAMASWAMY: So, we have seen multiple — we have seen multiple informants suggesting that there were. We know people were — we know people were FBI informants who were asked….
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: Is there any evidence…
RAMASWAMY: May I just — let me just finish.
(CROSSTALK)
RAMASWAMY: And you can come back and question me on it.
PHILLIP: Well, let me clarify.
RAMASWAMY: Because I know this is very uncomfortable for you.
PHILLIP: I’m going to clarify my question, because you…
RAMASWAMY: I know this is an uncomfortable issue for many people, but we have to do the truth here.
PHILLIP: I’m going to clarify my question, because I want to make sure that you understand what I’m asking you.
(APPLAUSE)
RAMASWAMY: Oh, I understand this deeply. And I told you I was with you three years ago. I’m not there now.
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: Where is the evidence…
RAMASWAMY: Yes.
PHILLIP: Where is evidence that the government had a plot, an inside job to inspire, to foment violence on January 6? Where is the evidence of that?
RAMASWAMY: So, let’s do this. I’m going to tell you what an inside job is.
(CROSSTALK)
RAMASWAMY: With due respect, I’m not going to let you put words in my mouth. I’m going to put my words in my mouth. And I’m going to tell you what I mean by that.
Entrapment.
PHILLIP: Where is the evidence that the government was involved in planning or executing January 6?
RAMASWAMY: Entrapment. OK.
PHILLIP: Where is that evidence?
RAMASWAMY: So, I’m going to give you — I’m going to give you hard facts.
And if I may, Abby, I know this is going to be a little uncomfortable. But we’re going to go through this, and you can push back on it after.
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: Just waiting for the evidence.
RAMASWAMY: And you can push back on that. And let’s do this fairly.
Why did they suppress footage of now what’s been released, 200 hours of footage, of shooting rubber bullets into that crowd, shooting tear gas into that crowd? You didn’t see that before. You saw what the response was to that.
Now you see footage coming out of actually rolling out the red carpet for Capitol Police allowing people in right through the front door.
PHILLIP: Mr. Ramaswamy, again, the vast majority of the footage shows…
(CROSSTALK)
RAMASWAMY: That video evidence should have been released before, Abby. That evidence should have been released before.
And my deeper question is this.
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: Mr. Ramaswamy, the vast majority of the footage shows police officers being overrun by violent rioters. That’s what the vast majority of it shows.
(CROSSTALK)
RAMASWAMY: I’m going to give you some hard facts. So, what — here’s what entrapment is.
PHILLIP: You can’t cherry-pick…
RAMASWAMY: I’m not cherry-picking.
If you let me finish, Abby. If you let me finish, Abby. I’m not cherry-picking.
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: You cannot cherry-pick examples…
(CROSSTALK)
RAMASWAMY: To the contrary. To the contrary. Do you know who cherry-picks?
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: … and say that that is what happened on January 6.
(CROSSTALK)
(APPLAUSE)
RAMASWAMY: The government cherry-picked 12 hours of footage, when there was 200 hours of footage. The cherry-picking was the government, not me. Release the whole thing.
And let me just finish one thing too, because this is super important as a topic.
PHILLIP: So, when you…
(CROSSTALK)
RAMASWAMY: I think this is the civil libertarian issue of our time, Gretchen Whitmer’s kidnapping.
(CROSSTALK)
RAMASWAMY: I want to keep it — I want to be really clear on this, because it’s the same issue and the same FBI, the same even part of the FBI.
Three people who were in an alleged plot to kidnap Gretchen Whitmer were acquitted at the end of trial because it was entrapment. That is, government agents put them up to do something they otherwise wouldn’t have done.
They gave them credit cards with spending limits of up to $5,000, encouraged them to buy munitions, plan something they weren’t otherwise willing to plan, so much so — and I want people at home to know this, especially CNN viewers to know this — is that one of the jurors went to those defendants and apologized afterwards, gave him a hug, apologized, seeing what the government had put a poor guy up to who had to go to some Mexican restaurant across the street to get hot water.
These people were exploited with credit cards up to $5,000, FBI agents putting them up to a kidnapping plot that we were told was true, but was entrapment.
PHILLIP: Fourteen…
(CROSSTALK)
RAMASWAMY: Same thing with the Capitol Police, people letting them in freely…
PHILLIP: Mr. Ramaswamy..
RAMASWAMY: … many of those people then being charged.
PHILLIP: Mr. Ramaswamy, look, I don’t…
[21:30:00]
RAMASWAMY: The government cannot put you up to do something and then charge you for it.
PHILLIP: Mr. Ramaswamy, look…
RAMASWAMY: That’s wrong.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
PHILLIP: I don’t want to have to…
RAMASWAMY: It’s wrong when they do it to the left or the right.
PHILLIP: I don’t — I don’t want to have to…
RAMASWAMY: I don’t care. It’s wrong.
(APPLAUSE)
PHILLIP: I don’t want to have to interrupt you. I really don’t. But I don’t want you to mislead the audience here or at home.
RAMASWAMY: I’m not.
PHILLIP: Fourteen —
RAMASWAMY: I think they’ve been misled by the mainstream media.
PHILLIP: Fourteen people —
RAMASWAMY: The mainstream media has misled them. Release the video footage.
PHILLIP: Fourteen people were charged in that plot. A majority of them were convicted.
RAMASWAMY: I said three of them were acquitted on grounds of entrapment.
PHILLIP: You’re right. But —
RAMASWAMY: That’s a fact. Dispute me. Was I wrong about that?
PHILLIP: What folks need to understand —
RAMASWAMY: Was I wrong about what I said? I was not.
PHILLIP: What folks need to understand is that —
RAMASWAMY: Three people were acquitted on grounds of entrapment.
PHILLIP: — nine were —
RAMASWAMY: A juror apologized.
PHILLIP: Nine were convicted.
RAMASWAMY: Yes. But the three who were put up should never have gotten to that stage of a trial.
PHILLIP: But going back to the January 6th issue —
RAMASWAMY: OK. That’s unacceptable in the United States.
PHILLIP: Look, I just want people to understand, three people were acquitted, nine people were convicted in that plot.
RAMASWAMY: I heard you, Abby.
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